I just returned from Surefire today. I had 5 Flashlights that needed attention as well as several lamp assemblies and a clicky 2-stage tail cap.

1) 10X
2) L4
3) L6
4) A2
5) Kroma Mil-Spec
6) lamp assemblies and tail cap

I was assisted by one with knowledge of Flashlights that were of the absolute minimum, IMHO. He said he has been employed by Surefire for 4+ years.

*10X = 1 problem… not charging*
My 10X wouldn’t charge but the charger is fine. I think the wires inside that connected to the external contacts broke. It still works, just won’t charge.

*L4 = 2 problems… 1 – low output, 2 – pocket clip*
My L4 had a broken/removed pocket clip and the output was not as bright as it should be.
I also had a black tail switch on it and the L4 was greenish olive drab (OD). He questions the black tail cap and where was the OD one. I told him it has been misplaced and I put on the black one so I can continue using it. He stated that, that alone may have possibly voided the warranty for I should not be swapping parts.

*L6 = 1 problem… low output*
My L6 was not performing like I thought it should. He says the L6 is no longer made so he does not know what can be done to fix it… huh?

*A2 = 2 problems… 1 – plastic lanyard ring broke, 2 – tail switch issue*
My A2 has a broken plastic lanyard ring and the twisty switch had to be tight at times before it turned on the incan lamp. You could press the button to light it, but to me, the tail had to be tightened more then it should and at times over tightened. The tail cap end would bottom out on the body before switch contact was made internally. He questions the pocket clip on the A2 and says I removed the clip from the L4 and placed it on the A2… huh? Isn’t a pocket clip a pocket clip?

*Kroma Mil-Spec = 1 problem… no press to high on white LED from off*
My Kroma would not let me press to high white when off. You must turn the tail until low white light and then you can press to high. I questioned this and he stated it should be able to light to high from off.

Lamp assemblies (LA)… No warranty on lamp assemblies unless it is a manufacture defect.
N1 LA… I told him that I had one that was new and it started the white smoke inside indicating a gas leak. I turned it off immediately so that I did not burn it out completely so that they can see it for themselves. Using a loop (high magnification) there was no cracks or a broken tip. DENIED!

P60 and P61 LA… both flashed at around the 5th battery change. The bulb is crystal clear and using the loop, the filament is melted. DENIED!

N90 LA… had a broken spot weld on the bulb lead which was clearly visible. The lamp worked as long as contact was made. Denied replacement at first until I stressed to him that it was a spot weld that did not hold. He brought it to his supervisor to show and came back with a new one with saying this one is a courtesy replacement… huh?


2-Stage clicky (get ready for this)… He never heard of one. He never heard of a 2-stage tail cap AT ALL, clicky or twisty. All the levels/modes are controlled within the head… Boy do we have a doozy working there, don’t we? Let’s see, I tell him… 2-stage Kroma tail... low then high, 2-stage A2 tail… LED then incan… NOPE! Not registering. He does not know the electronics of how they are made but the tail cap has NOTHING to do with the level/modes… it is all in the head. I showed him the circuit board in the tail cap, I said you are pushing the tail cap, there are two contact point in there with a resister on the first contact point… it would not sink in I tell you. He asked if I am a Surefire employee (I say no) and since I am not, that there is no point in arguing. The look he gave said I know nothing of what I am saying since I don't work for SF. He asks for the receipt for the tail cap and I don’t have it. Shakes his head and states that there is probably nothing SF can do for he does not know what the switch is or what it was used for but he will take it to the repair dept to see what they say… WHEW!

Now the best part of my story… I gathered 3 SF CR123 cells from the A2 and Kroma and placed them in the L6 to show him how dim it was. Then a bulb lit in my head…. I am going to use the Kroma 2-stage switch on the L6 to show him that the 2-stage is in the tail cap and not the head. I asked if he knew that the L6 was only a single mode head, he says ‘YES’. I removed the tail from the Kroma and place it on the L6 to show him it now has 2-stages… low and high and it’s a perfect fit! Low and behold it worked! Low and high just as planned with a smile on my face. He looks at it and says… I don’t know why it’s doing that; you should not be swapping out parts like that. That is how the L6 got damaged. The L6 is only a one mode flashlight and it should not have the 2 modes that I was showing him. I told him that it was the tail switch and not the head selecting the modes. I put things back together and all worked again. He shakes his head as we begin our departure and says since you didn’t buy these from us and without a receipt, I don’t think we can do much for you. I’ll get these items to the repair center and we’ll mail them back when we find out what we will do.

I wanted to pimp slap him so bad!!!! No facial expressions, no jokes, nothing, just straight to the point. Why are you here? is how I read him. When he was writing down the model #’s and issues of the items, I tried asking him other questions and he stopped me and said… I cannot concentrate with you asking me questions while I note your problems with each item. I have to do one at a time with no interruptions. The L6 show I mentioned above was after he wrote everything down and all was quiet. Looking back at my Flashlights above with the issues… was that really too much to grasps with a few added verbal questions? I guess some are just that way but for a Customer Service/Tech Rep = NOT!
I really think I got a rep that did not know much or that SF maybe coming down on repairs to the nitty gritty. The clip question on the A2 bugged me and I just remembered that it was the older four flat version that that came with the short clip as opposed to the new rounded with the long clip. Also, please note the new disclaimer in their Guarantee/Warranty statement. The warranty now reads (this is just partial) ... "altering this product from its original state” – “is not covered” as well as ... "switches may eventually wear out". I read this as to cover them from replacing bad switches and leaves an open gap to get out of a repair AT THEIR OPTION. You can install a 'recommended' accessory that is made by SF and if a problem arises, they "CAN" deny repair for you did in fact... 'ALTER A PRODUCT FROM THE ORIGINAL STATE'. To me, changing an LED, modding the circuit board, using after market parts etc would be altering the original state. Since the wording used is subject to ones own interpretation, who has the final say but SF. If your 6P Original incan didn't come from the factory with the P60L and Z49 clicky and you had a problem... they 'can' refuse to repair. That is what was said to me because I had a Z61 black tail cap on my L4 when I should have had a Z57 olive drab one. The exact same switch except for the color. His words to me... "You should not be swapping parts. The Flashlights are to be left untouched with the original parts only that came with the Flashlight when it was made. I don't know what will be done on these but I'll turn it over to repairs to have a look at them". His look to me was ... sorry bud, we are not going to fix these. You touched them and it's your loss.

So if partial of the SF warranty reads… “or altering this product from its original state” – “is not covered”.

1) Can we no longer buy a Z49 clicky tail cap and place it on our 6P? Or a P60L SF LED drop-in and put it in a non original P60L Flashlight? For that there alone… we have altered it from the original state.

2) Will putting on a black switch rather then the original OD one affect the electronics in the head? The issue I had with the L4 was low output and pocket clip.

3) Will having a different pocket clip on an A2 affect the second stage of the tail switch?

4) Will showing how a 2-stage tail switch works on a non 2-stage L6 Flashlight void the warranty of the L6 Flashlight?

5) Will using the tail cap of the Kroma for #4 above void the needed repairs of the Kroma switch? I only had a press to high white problem.

These questions will be answered when the items that were brought in for repair has been returned to me. This was my worst experience ever at Surefire and this visit deserves a JEER!


Njoy…

A UPS package arrived today from Surefire. I thought all was well.

L6 - it looks as if the head was replaced as well as the tail cap. I had scratches on both and it looks like new except for a very slight scratch/chip on the bezel. The tail cap is faulty though. It works when it wants. Also, the color is much darker then my original. It is a big color difference. Don't they care on how it looks. There was nothing with with the tail I had.

A2 - they forgot to replace the broken plastic lanyard ring.
L4 - replaced head
Kroma - replaced tail switch
10X - new battery

Looks like another SF trip is in order for the A2 and L6. I hope I can wait for the fix this time.

They still deserved that Jeer for my last visit as well as for me having to return items again that I have just received.

Njoy...

I had good service from Surefire but that was a year ago and I am only a sampling of one. My tail cap was acting up, I emailed, and a couple of days later I had a new cap. They didn’t even want the old one. You have had much more experience.

I have no doubt what you are saying because I’ve have been watching customer service quietly drop over the years – both online and brick & mortar. Remember when store employees would walk up and ask if you needed help and if you did then they knew the answer? Now I find it better to research then walk in a store with more information than the help. And get it myself, check out, then load it or pay extra to have it delivered. The only place that I have had good service has been at Target and REI stores. My friend says Costco does well. My worst was Circuit City, Best Buy, Wal-Mart and K-Mart (which closed and left the way for REI and its new shopping center. The remaining K-Mart is too far away and definitely on the wrong side of town) which are primers on how ‘know your frustration limit and how to do it yourself.’ Circuit City is gone and the Wal-Mart Super Store has not had my business for a year. It never did get much from me the last five years. I have popular shopping centers and two malls minutes away but I never go because store services are so slim. Some stores never gave intelligent service; Radio Shack comes to mind. Again, I don’t have a world of experience. All we can do is tell the world and hope they will listen. The alternative is to watch stores fade away.

Online, Amazon is a joy. They have real people with honest reviews, the prices are right, they have what I want, and they deliver. I had to return a camera case, my fault for getting the wrong size. They said to send it back; they credited me, and paid the postage. This was only a $12 case. Except for my wife’s favorite local haunts, she is an Amazon (gal.)

Here I am rambling again. You can delete this post if you want.

It sounds like you are getting the customer service runaround.

DELETE YOUR POST! YOU CRAZY? I got so excited that there was a reply that I had to go relieve myself. I was not sure if it was okay to start this kind of thread but the was not one so... what the hey?

I went to Surefire again today to have the A2 and L6 looked at. The A2 was a quick fix since it was just a snap on plastic ring. The L6, wouldn't you know it, didn't act up at all. I kept clicking and twisting and the problem never showed in front of the rep. I almost gave up and started to put it back in the bag while saying never mind. then it glitched... WHEW! then the rep took it and it continued to glitch. Alright... I can have it fixed now!. He took it back and I asked if I would get an RMA and leave it. Nope! Please wait and i will see what I can do now. A few minutes later he returns saying he replaced both the tail cap and head. Wasn't sure where the problem was but I got an almost new L6. The body was never scratched and the head still has the white sticker on it. BTW: The rep that helped me was the supervisor of CS. I asked for him by name. He was the one I spoke to on the phone after that last bad visit I had. I had to complain to someone.

Surefire has always gave me great CS, It was just that one episode that day. Just one bad incident is too much for a company like that... it should never had happen in the first place. When I was there, I saw the guy who gave me the bad CS the last visit... I wonder if his super told him that was me that complained?

Njoy...